how do you identify? what are your pronouns?

R & S: Lesbian. She/her.

do you feel a sense of belonging to the LGBTQIA+ community?

R: I do, I think that the current times where we are in this era, not only allies but the community is coming together, they are supporting one another – they are being nothing but supportive and they're doing it for the right cause, so we are on the right track.

S: Yeah, I think I do. I think that the community is up and coming, so [I] definitely am looking forward to [being] part of events to support the community.

what are some stereotypes of the LGBTQIA+ community that you have come across?

R: I can only speak for the lesbian community. Stereotypes from a lot of lesbians are like, “It's just a phase.” People think that we'd run it out and then become straight again. No no.

how do you respond to them?

R: Am I allowed to show fingers [laughs]. I feel that everyone has their own perspectives. If you feel that that is what you think it is, sure, feel that way, but keep it to yourself, you don't have to go on sharing it with someone who identifies as a lesbian. I think that self-respect and respecting somebody else is one of the best traits that a person can have. So if you've got something to say and if it's not nice, keep it to yourself.

S: Yeah, I mean, stereotypes exist and they will always exist because people don't really accept things that are not normal. But like what my wife said, we will just hope for the better; I hope that people are more educated and they see gender as fluid.

what does love mean to you?

R: Love to me is growth. Yeah, Sher. Sher! Sher!!

S: Love to me is . . . Rachael. Happy wife, happy life [laughs].

complete this sentence: love is not...

S: Love is not gendered. Love is acceptance of all sorts.

R: Nice! For me, love is not a guideline.

S: Well done.

R: Thanks. Fist bump [laughs].

*R & S proceeds to fist bump*

what do you love most about your partner?

S: Oh, that's easy. Oh, c'mon-

R: What do you think I would say?

S: Everything! That's why you married me [laughs].

R: Actually, her smile.

S: I think Rachael has the biggest heart and she has so much love to give, not only to me, to our kids, just everyone around her. I think that is something that's very, very rare. The platform that she started, lesbeheard, that's her way of spreading love.

Rachael, share with us about your platform, lesbeheard.

S: So lesbeheard, it's in its name itself – les be heard. It's basically to be the voice for the queer women community. To shine some light on it. It's not just about putting up educational content, it's also about being a voice, being out there giving other queer women a platform for them to come in, speak to us, speak to one another.

I do live shows with different subject matter experts, ranging from sexual wellness, sexual health, mental health, mental wellness, all the way to actually explaining what is labels. So something that queer women is actually going to enjoy, how they can take care of themselves, how they can take care of their sex life. These are not things that are easily out there because of that same stereotype that we are the minorities and we are all women and we are all safe, no one's going to hit us down the road if they see us holding hands, we're not going to get STDs because we're women. All those are not true.

We're just an educational platform and a celebratory platform. We celebrate women, we educate women, and we inspire them.

share with us your love story.

S: I mean, the community is very small right, so we met at an event. I saw [Rachael] at an event. We were seeing other people back then. I added her on Instagram, she followed me back. Then . . . Rachael, tell the story of how you manipulated me.

R: I didn’t manipulate, it’s just a pick-up line [laughs].

So someone followed me on Instagram, added me on Facebook – who adds people on Facebook that they don’t know? Creepy! But she did. We were friends, we were following each other for a while. I was like, "Who’s this cute chick?" She’s like the first person to see all my stories. And she was cute!

continued...

S: So, what I did was – this is a good, I think you guys should use it as well – Sher’s last name is Gill, and one of my closest friends, his name is also Gill. What I did was, since she’s my Facebook friend right, I tagged her on Facebook, I removed it, so she’ll get the notification on the phone, and then I got the chance to message her. I’m like, "Hey, I’m so sorry, I tagged the wrong Gill." [laughs]–

S: Smooth ah, very smooth.

R: –yeah, very smooth! And then we spoke, but there was a bit of resistance. I realized that she was actually seeing somebody else – so good girl, never flirt back – so we kind of stopped, but we got an opportunity to meet up a few months down the road. And someone told me that she had a huge crush on me. And that’s how it all started – through mutual friends and social media. I slide into her DMs, but didn’t work [laughs].

what made you guys decide on marriage? how did you both know that you were 'the one' for each other?

S: It was a mutual decision for the proposal. However, she beat me to it–

R: You weren't even planning it. I was not going to propose to a woman in a car, right?

S: Yeah, it was quite public, the way you proposed.

R: Where did I propose?

S: At Kallang! Oh, c'mon I know where it was–

R: Why is it at Kallang?

S: Because we had our first date at Kallang, at the carpark. The proposal was quite public at Kallang Leisure Park.

continued...

R: To answer your first question on what made us actually decide on marriage: It was something that was not on either of our minds, but we actually had a conversation about what do you think about marriage? We were like, ah, nah, no. Then I think we revisited that question again. To me, this is what I can say for myself, is I'm like, "eh, for once, I could actually marry this girl. I could actually see myself marrying this woman and spending the rest of my life with her."

S: I mean, when you know, you know. So yeah, we did it, we got engaged. We waited for two years, planned a really hard wedding actually. So, yeah, we got engaged for two years and we decided to get married in Sydney, Australia, where I was originally born and raised for a while before I came back to Singapore. So we went back to my hometown to get married in front of family and friends.

continued...

R: Us being lesbians, we were afraid of backlashes from friends, from family. When we got engaged, we were still very early in our relationship. Yes, we agreed to getting married because it was not the very kiddy love, like date for three years and then propose; it was so mutual, it was so adult. I never had this kind of relationship before where we actually sat down, we're like, "Hey, you know, we're at the stage in life where we support each other, we have good careers, we know what we're doing, and we actually make decisions together...what do you think about marriage?" And then we went out to buy rings. So it's not like one person bought the ring, we went to buy the rings together. And that was the day that I actually planned for the proposal. Brought her [to Kallang Leisure Park], proposed to her. She had my ring in her pocket and she didn't get down on her knees–

continued...

S: I did! Oh, come on!

R: No, you didn't, you didn't! I had to remind her like, "Hey, it's my turn now." [laughs] And then she kneeled down. So we kind of proposed to each other. Technically, I proposed first, and then I reminded her to do the same because we're two women, I deserve someone to also kneel down. I have been reminding her and I promised to remind her for the rest of our lives.

as you know, marriage is not recognised here in Singapore for the LGBTQIA+ community. how important do you think marriage is to you for the community?

S: I think marriage is important because just like any heterosexual couple, marriage signifies love, commitment; it's all the same ingredients that any relationship and any ‘normal’ marriage has. To me, it is important not for the benefits, but to be recognised, to be known, and to be respected for it. I think that's a very, very important thing, at least for me and I think for a lot of LGBTQ people.

R: I think, for me, marriage, I see it in a very different way. For me, when I see marriage, it's not about family, it's not about anything. I think marriage is supposed to be intimate between yourself and your partner. If you feel that you want to get married, and that's for yourself, that's fine. Marriage is not about getting married, just buy a house, for example, when in Singapore. For me, it's something very intimate. It's something that two people have to agree on because there's so much weight in the word 'marriage'.

continued...

S: And when I wanted to get married to Sher, I didn't know how our marriage could have impacted so many people in the community. To be honest, that's how lesbeheard born. I am very forgetful so I tend to write things down. So I decided that I'm going to write the journey between our marriage down. And what I realised from there is more and more people started reaching out to me, they found my blog, they found my Instagram, and they're messaging me almost every day [saying,] "Rachael, thank you so much for doing this, thank you for writing about this, I really want to watch your wedding ceremony." Because all of them were so inspired to actually be a part of our wedding, we actually live streamed our whole wedding, so we had like a thousand over people watching the live stream itself. After that they even messaged me, "Rachael, how do we get married?" So as much as [what] marriage means [to] us, I realised that our marriage has somehow inspired or given an opportunity to the community–

S: Hope.

R: –yeah, or hope. Oh, I've heard so much of that. You know, like, "You guys give me hope that one day I can find my soulmate and get married to [that person]." And that is something that you usually never hear from someone in the LGBTQ spectrum.

what do you wish to see in Singapore's LGBTQIA+ community in the next 10 years?

R: In the community itself, I feel that people in the community should always, always, always support the people in the community itself. That's something that I wish to see more often. And maybe just a word for [the people who are reading this]: It's okay. I think this word is going to be so impactful. It is okay. It's okay to be you. It's okay to be sad. It's okay to be happy. It's okay to not be liked. It's okay not to like somebody else. It's okay to be you. I hope you guys remember that it's okay.